Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Sick guitar question???
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7816		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Cardinal23 [ Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've been the very happy owner of a Seagull S6+Folk guitar for about a year. Terrific tone, great action.
Then hell visited me.

I changed my strings.
Now I have a problem that is consistent and easy to describe.

Using a tuner, I tune a string. Let's say we're talking about the G string (although it happens with ALL the strings).
I tune it open to G. Perfect.
Now I press the 1st fret on the G string. It is a little bit sharp. The 2nd fret, sharper still. The 5th fret (C) is sharper still, and so on.

So, although it is in tune open, it is NOT in tune (it is sharp) as you go up the string.

H E L P   ! !
The only thing I can think of is to remove the strings and put on another set.

If you can’t help me, can you suggest a place that might?

Thank you

Author:  arvey [ Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
You have intonation problems, Likely you put on a different guage of string, maybe just brand. Change the strings and go back to what you orriginally had or compensate the saddle for the new strings.
Author:  Dennis E. [ Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
You guitar has a properly fitting saddle, with no wobble, right? And it didn't fall out and get put back into the slot backward, right?

Dumb questions, I know, but if I didn't ask them, who would?
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
intonation will be affected by heavier strings. richard's suggestion of going back to the brand and guage of strings you were previously using should solve your problem.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
If the problem is that bad, wasn't there before and nothing changed but the
strings, then your problem is probably the strings. I see bad strings right out
of the box all the time. Often times if you look closely enough you can see
small sections of windings with notable gaps along the length of the string.
The resulting intonation problems will often be accompanied by a beat, or
some pulsing overtone audible on many notes on that string. Of course
respected brands like D'addario, GHS, etc., will have this problem less
frequently. If you're using strings like Darcos or Davincis though, you should
expect to see this often.

Your nut slots may be a little high as well, but that would give you sharpest
at the first fret, getting better as you move up. Change the guilty string first
and see if that helps.David Collins38931.42375
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I am not that versed on Seagul's and do not know if their truss rods are double action or not. If they are and the truss rod is giving the neck revers relief as in the string are closer to the frets at the 8th fret than the 2nd fret then this would cause the guitar to play sharp, but I would also expect this to cause a buzz.

Like everyone else I suspect first, bad strings but it is unusual for every string in the set to bad the same way. Second a loose fitting saddle, third the saddle turned the wrong way.

if none of these things, then something else has changed in the geometry of the guitar, which is not likely to have happen during a string change. If none of the above tests eliminates the problem. I suggest you fine a reputable luthier in you area to look over the guitar.
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Michael

The S6 Does have a Double action Rod.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:29 am ]
Post subject: 
After pondering this for a while I wondered if this might not an issue, but I would have expected Cardinal23 to also state that he had a buzz when playing below the 10th fret.
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Good questions Dennis, I have seen this happen with some players. They remove the strings, do a wipe down on the guitar and remove the saddle, then put it back in either upside down or reversed right side up. That will change everything since the saddles are contoured. I have a Godin Seagull guitar. If this is OK then my thought is like the other guys, probably went to a heavier guage or string and is changing things up. I have never experimented in strings I use, but another good comment about quality issues with some brands could be at play as well.

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds to me like you went to a heavier gauge string
(doing that alone requires intonation adjusting). It also sounds like the heavier gauge strings are too thick for the nut slots and therefore are sitting higher or perhaps are not comming off the front of the nut any longer. That will make your strings sharper. I don't think you just have a "bad" set of strings since you said that it is the same on ALL strings. Usually a bad set contains only one or two strings that are bad. They are usually consistently bad from set to set because often the manufacturer made thousands before realizing there was a problem. D'Addario strings are among the best quality control wise.
If all else fails smash the guitar into a thousand pieces. Hey I have done just that...remember... "If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood". quote from DSB 7/10/02 Dave-SKG38931.5696412037
Author:  John Elshaw [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Follow the advice here, change your strings. You don't have bad strings, you most likely just don't have the right strings for how your guitar was setup. When a string is fingered, it obviously stretches and gets pulled sharp. Depending on your action and the string gauge, the amount of stretch will be different. Try the same brand and gause and I bet your problems will be solved.

Read this article by John Gilbert, one of the best classical makers ever. He has a very good explanation of intonation from a technical standpoint.

guitar intonation

Good luck!

John
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
I hope that Cardnial23 is on site because he did not say any thing about changing gauge. Nor did he say that that he had checked this out on a tuner before he changed string. It is possible that the he is using a good tuner that reads closer than 1-3c in accuracy and he is seeing for the first time the sharpening of the string when fretted. He never said how sharp just a little bit sharp and sharper as he went up the scale. It is maybe likely this guitar as always played Just a tad sharp all along but with the temperament being equal he has not noticed before?

As John mention above I can take any guitar and make it play a tad sharp or flat just by the way and exact position of the finger fretting the string and the attack use to sound the note.MichaelP38931.6065046296
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I might have missed it but none of us asked him to check the 12 harmonic vs. the 12th fretted to verify that it is in the intonation be it because of gauge change or something in the guitar changed.
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
I was getting very confused until I realized I misread the original post. I
thought you said that the problem was only with the G (guess I skipped
over the part in parentheses), and didn't realize it was all the strings. In
that case the bad strings would be a very unlikely explanation. More
details would be helpful, like string gauge and brand that was on it before
and after, and what tuner are you using?

Seagull guitars are one of the few makers that usually have a reasonable
nut height from the factory, although the radius is usually a little flat
(good in the middle, slightly high on the outside). Right out of the box,
most of the truss rods are completely loose with the neck dead straight,
and usually have to be just snugged counterclockwise to put in a tad of
relief and keep the rod from rattling. The action is usually too low for
many and the saddle typically needs to be shimmed, more so on the bass
side. It's really quite incredible how consistant their manufacturing
usually is.

In any case, something sounds quite strange about your predicament. I
would second making sure the saddle wasn't flipped around when you
changed the stings. Even then although the intonation problems would be
very apparent in the upper frets, it would not usually be too noticable in
the first few. It may be best just to take this to a repair person who can
look at it first hand.David Collins38931.863587963
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:40 am ]
Post subject: 
I read John Gilbert's article on intonation by the way, and I'm sure his guitars
and compensation system work and sound very well. The reasoning that he
uses however is a very strange, and although it seems to work for him I
would have to say it is not very accurate from a technical standpoint.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/